There’s a saying that goes ‘A little knowledge is a dangerous thing’, and alas I tend to find that can be the case when I’m reading translated works… I’ve grumped a bit about translation issues in the past, and these can be a particular problem when I’m reading from the French; in particular a dual language edition of poetry. A case in point is a recent book which became such a struggle that I actually stopped reading it, although the problem may be more my expectations than the book itself…
The author is Charles Baudelaire, who’s appeared on the Ramblings before; and I *am* a bit of a fan of his work. When I was perusing the Seagull Books sale last year, I initially intended not to purchase from it, but did get hold of a volume of his they’d issued via a second hand site. The book is “Invitation to the Voyage”, translated by Beverley Bie Brahic, and it’s an anthology featuring selections from his prose and poetry arranged thematically, so that works in the two different forms relate to one another. The poems are presented alongside their French originals, but not the prose.
Baudelaire poetry
So I started reading with enthusiasm, but soon began to stumble. The problem is my schoolgirl French, and the temptation to compare the translation with the original; and then finding that I would prefer a different rendering!! This is not me being arrogant, as I would never presume to translate and can’t imagine how complex it is, but there were places where I was uncomfortable with what was being presented in English…
Now, I *know* a literal translation is not necessarily going to be the best, and that any translation of a poem (in particular) is going to be an interpretation. But the renderings weren’t working for me and when I got to “The Balcony” the disjuncture between what I felt I should be reading and what I was reading was too much – I abandoned the book…
Baudelaire is an author whose poems I have in several different translations, as you can see from the book pile above, and I dug them all out to compare the various versions of “The Balcony”; and the one which appealed to me most, oddly enough, was from the Penguin Classics Selected Poems which contains what they call a plain prose translation by Carol Clark. Simply a literal prose rendering, but I found it the most moving and the one which spoke to me most – go figure…
This leaves me with a bit of a dilemma, really, as another slight quibble I had with “Invitation…” was its selectiveness. As I read through, I was reminded that Baudelaire’s one great poetic work was “Les Fleurs du Mal” which kind of is a complete whole of its own. Reading selections from it just felt a bit wrong, but the dilemma I now have is that the Penguin only has part of it so I’m not sure where to go next with reading Baudelaire’s poetry.
Baudelaire Prose
Really, I’m my own worst enemy I suppose; maybe I would be better off sticking large post-its over the French originals, finding the translated voice I like best and just reading that. The danger is that I will always have that question mark in the back of my mind as to whether I would prefer different words; if I can get past that, I may be ok!
Baudelaire has, of course, been translated many, many times and so it may be that I just haven’t found the right version for me yet. For the time being, however, I shall stick to the literal prose translations for a little while (and these are also the form used in my Penguin Book of French Poetry, which is a help). And I can also dip into his prose as I have a number of collections of this too. But if anyone can recommend a translation of Baudelaire they think is particularly good, please do let me know!
Kaggsy's Bookish Ramblings 
Jan 07, 2022 @ 07:51:14
Sorry, can’t recommend any Baudelaire translations, but you’ve made me wonder whether that might be the case with the Tsvetaeva and Cavafy translations I encounter. Maybe that’s why I have at least five different versions of each, still trying to find my favourite (and I don’t even understand the original).
Jan 07, 2022 @ 11:54:06
I think I’m the same – with authors and books I love I do tend to have multiple translations. For Tsvetaeva, I’ve found I like Elaine Feinstein’s versions but of course I couldn’t tell you how accurate or good they are. Likewise, I posted once on a translation of a particular Akhmatova poem which varied a lot. It’s so difficult!!
Jan 07, 2022 @ 16:16:03
Yes, I too like Feinstein, although more recently Ilya Kaminsky has translated a couple, which look promising.
Jan 07, 2022 @ 18:28:49
Oh, that’s good to know – I’ll check those out. I think sometimes, too, it can be the first version you read that sticks with you and it can be hard to move part that particular translator’s voice.
Jan 07, 2022 @ 19:06:35
That certainly seems to be the case with me and Cavafy…
Jan 07, 2022 @ 19:41:58
😆🙂
Jan 07, 2022 @ 09:35:36
This is the problem I have with books translated from French – I can nearly, but not quite, read them in the original, and then I get all twitchy. I love hearing about other people’s thoughts on this type of thing, so thank you for sharing this!
Jan 07, 2022 @ 11:47:51
Well, I’m glad it’s not me – having a smattering of French from school is enough to have me querying things, but I’m not up to reading them all in the original. It’s less of an issue with Russian, of course…
Jan 07, 2022 @ 09:47:11
Yes, with my scanty French, I’ve had this problem too…
Jan 07, 2022 @ 11:46:54
I’m glad it’s not just me… 🙄🙄
Jan 07, 2022 @ 12:21:49
I honestly can’t recommend a good translation, but I do know what you mean about a little knowledge, and struggling with a translation of something! I’ve had that happen, too, and it is enough to make a person set a book aside. On the other hand, as you say, translation is very difficult and complex; I wouldn’t want to presume, either. Still, when something just doesn’t feel right, it doesn’t.
Jan 07, 2022 @ 13:28:21
It’s a difficult balance, because I certainly couldn’t translate – and also my French is from my schooldays so a long time ago and basic! I guess I’ll just have to keep trying different translations! 😉
Jan 07, 2022 @ 14:31:25
I am very fortunate to be able to read Baudelaire in the original. I can commiserate with your translation woes. I know there are many bad translations out there. Apart from having an excellent command of both languages, the translator has to get into the bones and skin of the poet. Have you tried Anthony Mortimer? Also, there is a new translation by Eric Gans, a professor in the US. I haven’t read them but worth a try.
Jan 07, 2022 @ 15:24:03
That is fortunately – I envy you! And I’ve read neither of these two, so I may see what they do with Balcony as a bit of research….
Jan 07, 2022 @ 16:52:28
Although my own (non-English) language ability will never reach even the smattering level, I’m interested in translation issues and enjoyed your post. With translated poetry, I generally follow your method, i.e., compare many different translations to see how they differ and which ones I like. Isn’t it amazing to see the differences? There’s a particular Cavafy poem I love, but only in one translation; had I read it in another, well — I wouldn’t have gotten hooked on it!
I loved Fleurs du Mal when I read it many years BTW (can’t remember the translator).
Jan 07, 2022 @ 18:28:08
It’s so often just the one translation which really grabs you, isnt it? I felt that way with the Akhmatova poem I mentioned and certainly prefer Feinstein’s Tsvetaeva and Herbert Marshall’s Mayakovsky. I’ve never recovered from a translation of the latter where the translator *added* bit of his own to the work!!!!!
Jan 07, 2022 @ 17:35:59
The new translations by Aaron Poochigian are not to be missed — simply astonishing!
Jan 07, 2022 @ 18:24:42
Oh, that’s great – thank you Boris! I’ll check those out! 😊😊
Jan 07, 2022 @ 20:16:38
I enjoyed reading a parallel translation of several short stories in Italian, all by different translators, some with a regional dialect, all in different narrative style. Even with my limited knowledge of the language I could see that a reasonable effort had been made to get across the tone and style of each selection; so I wonder if just having one translator covering the gamut of a poet’s lifetime writing may be part of the problem?
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:33:57
That could well be, because a writer does change over time. Having said that, I think there can be advantages in having one translator work on one author, particularly if the latter is still alive – thinking of William Weaver who translated much of Calvino, and worked alongside the latter. But of course that isn’t always an option…
Jan 07, 2022 @ 22:22:58
I can see how this would be frustrating for you. I don’t have any additional language skills, so I rely on good, faithful translations. It is such a skill. Such a shame to be disappointed in a translation of a favourite writer.
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:32:43
Translation really is a skill, isn’t it? I only have basic French, but I can remember enough to have me querying things a little. I’ll keep exploring the Baudelaire translations to see what else I can find!
Jan 07, 2022 @ 22:38:27
I forget who it was who said that poetry is that which can’t be translated. Ezra Pound was perhaps an exception- he made new. Shame about his politics
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:31:54
They were probably right!! Although having a poet translate poetry is probably a good idea. Pound was not a great human being (to put it mildly) but I can’t help but be drawn to his work.
Jan 08, 2022 @ 00:51:46
I’m sorry it was a frustrating reading experience for you, but it made an interesting post. And there are some poets that are notorious for being close to impossible to translate according to native speakers – i.e. Alexander Pushkin.
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:31:12
Well, translation is a subject which is so interesting, and I applaud all translators. Poetry must definitely been the hardest, so anyone who tries is very brave in my book. I’ll keep searching till I find a Baudelaire I’m comfy with!!
Jan 08, 2022 @ 02:24:01
This is a major issue. I honestly believe you can’t translate poetry. You can translate words, but I doubt you can totally recreate the ambiance, the rhythm, etc. You might be able to write nice poems, but they will be an adaptation, not a translation. That’s just my opinion.
I’m French and read Spanish (for instance). Pablo Neruda is my favorite Spanish writing author. When I tried him in French or English, I found it so flat. No way you can translate the music of the Spanish sentence in English or French
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:30:09
I think it’s difficult, particularly with a language whose poetry is very formally structured, which I believe French poetry is. Maybe that’s why I’ve responded to the prose versions, because they’re simply translating meaning rather than wrestling with the problems of prose structure. And that musicality is a very different thing. I’ve read Lorca recently and loved it, but I’ve no idea how it compares with the orginal…
Jan 08, 2022 @ 05:04:57
I hear you and I feel your frustration. I do not know any other European language except English and unfortunately in this geography there are limited options in terms of translated works. So most of the times it’s like it or lump it kind of a deal. And there some translations that are awful but I stick to it because what else can I do and something is better than nothing.
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:28:39
It *is* tricky, and in some cases I’ll only have one English option. It’s with authors like Tolstoy or Baudelaire that there will be more options and then it becomes complex. I’m certainly going to explore more translations of B if I can though!
Jan 08, 2022 @ 09:32:23
Such a tricky issue, with multitude of different issues to consider. Sorry to hear that this was a disappointing read for you, as I can understand how frustrating it would be. As you say, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Finding the *right* translation for you can be so tricky, especially for poetry where rhythm and cadence are so important.
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:27:17
It *is* very tricky and I hesitate to find fault with a translation because I’m basically monolingual. But I was finding here that a word with a particular literal translation was being rendered as something which felt quite different to me and seemed to altering the meaning of the whole phrase. It’s a hard one, and I’m not sure I’ve found the right English version of Baudelaire for me yet – but I will certainly keep looking!
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:14:36
I question whether it’s possible to translate poetry where the words were chosen with such precision and attention to mood, stress patterns, rhythm etc. I used to manage advertising campaigns where the copy proved impossible to translate and retain the exact meaning as the original. So we went for “transcreation” where you write in the chosen language, trying to retain the spirit of the original but not sticking exactly to those words. Worked much better
Jan 08, 2022 @ 11:25:42
Yes, you may well be right, and in particular with French poetry which I believe has very strict structures. Transcreation is a good word, although with French I’ve found that translation of a particular word can be very different to how I interpret it, and the meaning and emphasis radically apart from the original – as far as I know, with my limited French language. Ah well – I shall keep on trying different versions!
Jan 08, 2022 @ 17:54:40
What a shame Kaggsy. I don’t read any other languages unfortunately and I rely so much on translations – its such an art isn’t it? I’m sure poetry must be especially challenging.
Jan 08, 2022 @ 19:10:24
Translation really *is* an art, paricularly if you’re trying to capture the nuance of poetry. I’ll keep searching – I’m sure there is a perfect Baudelaire translation for me out there somewhere!!
Jan 20, 2022 @ 19:06:19
And even though this likely would arise with two translators’ work on a contemporary book too, it’s also complicated by the fact that one has fledgling language skills and is not necessarily aware of the impact that the historical aspect to a work like this would be contributing to the whole scene. I can sympathize with your sense of being unsettled, but I have no helpful suggestions! Other than dropping everything and returning to uni to become a French Language scholar and historian.
Jan 20, 2022 @ 20:31:29
Ah, well I couldn’t return to uni because I never went, but it would be fun to study France! Alas, that’s not likely to happen now, so I’ll just have to keep searching out different translations to try!!